Listen to episode 3 of 1619 and post a paragraph-long comment or question
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Sunday, April 5, 2020
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Community? Engagements? Arts? Well, for starters this is a class taught at Transylvania University in Lexington, KY by professors Kremena Todorova and Kurt Gohde. The goal of this class is to form a relationship with the community by engaging in artistic projects with the community. The outcome of this will manifest itself in many ways, some recognizable and others not so much.
Episode 3, having a different narrator, struck me a little differently than the others. After a few minutes, I questioned "What does this have to do with race? When are we getting to that." Though by the end, I think they tied the vegetable-cutting narrative back very nicely. Answering the question, "What is 'American music?'" this episode brakes down the dimensions of popular music today. These dimensions are not evident. As a viewer, I acknowledge how process is assumed or overlooked/lost when the final product is presented. It seems the larger loss of the history of musical tradition mimics the loss of perceivable process of a single song itself...
ReplyDeleteI love this Emily. I was also stuck by the co conclusions drawn in this episode! It’s sad to know that so many black artist will never receive credit for their amazing works
DeleteI hate that, despite the closeness between American music and blackness, powerful racists have tried so hard to separate music from its black origins. It's terrible.
DeleteI was also confused at first as to where it was going, but I understood at the end how important race and music are to each other.
DeleteI was blown away by episode three of 1619. I did not expect the turn to black face performers and minstrel shows, mainly because I was not aware of how prominent it was to US culture. The story of the creation of Jim Crow and the narrators emphasis that this was the seed of American pop culture was really breathtaking and eye opening. Already taken aback by the first half of the episode, when the narrator re-centered on black music that shapes our culture and how intrinsic it is in all of our music, I had chills. His claim that Motown was the anecdote to minstrel shows, was an incredible conclusion that really drew the whole episode together and epitomized the point that it is not black music but American music, defining all of us.
ReplyDeleteI find this episode incredibly powerful. To say that Black music courses through all of of American music is to say Blackness courses through all of us--and that is an amazing thing to consider.
DeleteI also has not expecting the turn to black face, and this episode made me feel more connected to others because of the cultural richness of the music we listen to. It really does define all of us.
DeleteI was not expecting the epsiode to do as it did and then come back at the end and draw that connect.
DeleteI totally agree! It’s so amazing to hear music that I’ve known for years and now actually be able to understand the truth behind it
DeleteOh same! I knew about minstrel shows but I had no clue that they were commonplace or that some performers were Black!!
DeleteThe way he drew Motown into the end was a great concluding link, yes!
DeleteI don't think I'd ever heard of minstrel shows before this podcast so I was definitely surprised to hear a lot of the information that was presented
DeleteI liked the part at the end of the podcast when it said “how all that history is just very silently coursing through this music. It might not even be aware that it’s even there. It’s so thoroughly atomized into American culture.” We truly are not aware of how much history is embedded in the music we listen to every day. I think that this should be highlighted more in the music classes that schools are offering. So then people will know the history of the music we listen to. How it all started to where it is today.
ReplyDeletePaige, yes, absolutely! I've been thinking about a class that puts together this spisode of 1619 together with American movies and literature about blackface and about what it means to be American. I am really taken by this podcast (can you tell??).
DeleteI completely agree with you! A music class that explores history alongside music would be very enlightening.
DeleteYes I thought that was a beautiful point too! It’s sad to think about how much history has been lost because white people had to adjust it
DeleteYes!!! I agree. More historical music classes please. There is an art history, why not music history?
DeleteYessss! The speaker made me hear new parts of songs that are very old to me. I could’ve listen to him hear the songs for the full podcast.
DeleteI agree that we could learn a lot from current and past music. That would make for a very interesting class!
DeleteIn the past few years, I've heard a few pop songs sample other songs from the past-- sometimes ones I recognized, but other times, ones I didn't. In some cases, other people had to tell me about the older work being sampled. I wonder how many people have done this with music by black artists who were never asked permission and without anyone ever knowing?
DeleteSo much could be learned in schools if we were to better integrate more groups narratives.
DeleteOne of the many things about blackface minstrelsy Wesley Morris illuminates in this episode of 1619 is why white people were so captivated by minstrel shows. He says, “You got to laugh at a thing that you actually felt so anguished about. You get to watch these black people, who are really a source of national agony outside the theater, become fools inside the theater. And in sitting in that theater, watching these white men in blackface make fools of black people, a white audience could feel cultured. They could feel civilized. They could feel superior to the people they were watching be made fun of. And in a crazy way, watching them dehumanize would really have been an opportunity for a white audience to feel so much better about their own humanity.”
ReplyDeleteStephen Foster is not only mentioned among some of the preeminent blackface performers in the 19th century, he is in fact introduced as “the man widely credited as being the father of American music.” Morris doesn’t mention that among the most famous minstrel songs Foster wrote is “My Old Kentucky Home.”
So my question for each of us is this: knowing the Kentucky state song is a blackface minstrelsy song—a song steeped in a tradition of dehumanizing Black people so white folks could feel better about their own humanity—what are we going to do about it?
I did not know that Stephen Foster did black face until this episode, and it made me sad that he is responsible for our state song. While I love "My Old Kentucky Home" and I think its lyrics are fitting for our state, I think we should be taught more about Stephen Foster and the way black people have influenced so much of American culture and music. It is kind of ridiculous that I have always seen him as an American music hero until today, and I think that others should have their eyes opened as well.
DeleteI knew that background of this song before this and thought how are we all just being okay with this
DeleteIs there a movement for this???
DeleteWhat a horrifying reality. The passage you highlighted was incredibly powerful. It's absurd the different ways people find to comfort themselves for the atrocities they commit.
DeleteShelby, I am hoping to start a movement...after the pandemic (it got in the way)!
DeleteI've always wanted to start a movement to start advertizing Jefferson Davis as a Transy alumni. I understand that the fact that he came here implies history was made here, but history was made here for the worse by the fact that the professors taught someone how to become Jefferson Davis.
DeleteEdit: I mean stop*** advertising Jefferson Davis as an alum
DeleteI find it very fascinating to think about Stephen foster in the context of all of this. Stephen Foster spent many of his years in Bardstown and is seen as the pride of the town. Growing up with all of that propaganda it’s interesting to reflect on it.
DeleteI always count myself as lucky that I grew up in a music household. My grandparents were really into Motown, and my dad has always loved blues and rock n roll. I learned from an early age from my dad that American music was black music.
ReplyDeleteI'm personally a rock n roll girl, and I often think about how Elvis is credited as the king of it, when really, he was just the first white guy to do what African Americans had been doing for years. Just a couple of days ago, I thought about, as the podcast brought up with African Americans performing in blackface for minstrel shows, how so many black performers had to suffer through blatant racism just to make a living as an entertainer. I imagine that had to take a psychological toll on African American performers as a direct hit to their self esteem and confidence in their abilities as an artist.
I can't imagine how the black performers felt when they had to do blackface in order to perform for white people. It is sad..
DeleteI agree. I can't imagine the toll it took on them.
DeleteYes I totally agree!! It truly breaks me heart to think about the people that will never know how much their work changed an entire nation
DeleteYour point about Elvis is very interesting. It is terrible that many times black artists must use stereotypes and racism in order to gain a position in Hollywood.
DeleteI didn't know that about Elvis but that's an interesting point. I'll have to look that up later
DeleteEpisode 3 of 1619 was really eye-opening for me. While I knew that many enslaved black people sung while they worked, I did not realize these slave songs influenced white creators like Stephen Foster. I felt eerie as I realized some of these songs were taught to me by my white grandparents. I grew up singing "Old Dan Tucker" and "Oh! Susana," but I had no idea about the history behind these songs. I also found the discussion of the way freedom is expressed in black music to be true. I really enjoy listening to rap and hip/hop, and many of my favorite songs' lyrics are about freedom/expression. One song in particular that this episode made me think of is Beyonce's song "Freedom" feat. Kendrick Lamar. Here is a link to the lyrics if anyone else is interested in the connection. https://genius.com/Beyonce-freedom-lyrics
ReplyDeletehttps://genius.com/Beyonce-freedom-lyrics
DeleteThanks for the song recommendation!
DeleteIt always makes me cringe when people put down rap and hip hop, while I don't listen to it much, I know it's a meaningful and deeply important art. Too often it gets dismissed as 'bad' music.
DeleteThanks for the recommendation, Lydia!
DeleteI think somewhere in my mind I knew that enslaved people sang while they worked, but I think I'd since forgotten, so the mention of it in the podcast was a good reminder, and I also thought it was interesting how white artists were influenced by that singing.
DeleteAnd I just looked up the Beyonce song and it's powerful-- thank you for including that!
“This is the sound not just of black America, but the sound of America.” A historical pain that is responsible for some of the best music made in America. It is crazy to think about how music during times of slavery have inspired countless artists to sing a certain way or have a beat hit because of how people did it long ago. At first, I did not see where this was going because of the new narrator and unique example, but it was a very powerful message. The narrator said that music would be passed on from generation to generation on the plantation, and that is how we got most of the music we love today. It is eye-opening to think about people using music as a way to survive and stay positive in times that were unimaginably awful. This makes me appreciate the music we have today even more.
ReplyDeleteI thought that this episode was really well done. It pointed out so many connections that people were very unaware of.
ReplyDeleteA lot of what is discussed in this episode was talked about in a May term I took, Art History and Religion in pop culture. This was team taught by Dr.Goodman and Dr.Barnsley back in 2018 when I was a freshman. We spent 3 whole classes talking about how much of our music was created and shaped by black men and women.
It was a very eye opening class and I loved the discussion we had about Childish Gambino’s “This is America”. The song had just released during May term and we spent a whole day analyzing it. The song has been parodied and many gifs have been made from his facial expressions and movements. Many people found it humorous the way he acted in the music video, but he was actually pointing out many problems with society in the music video. His movements were meant to resemble minstrel acts as a way to show America’s racist history. I could go on and on about the symbolism in the music video, so I’ll just leave a link.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2018/05/07/this-is-america-breaking-down-childish-gambinos-powerful-new-music-video/
I SAW CHILDISH GAMBINO at Lollapalooza and I became obsessed with this song. The words, and the music video are so eye opening it is unreal. I love that brought this up.
DeleteI loved seeing all the little details in the "This is America" video when it came out. Just like you said, the meaning of the song and video went over so many people's heads, unfortunately.
DeleteWe also analyzed This is America as well as This Land and others in FYRS. They circle similar topics of race and US identity.
DeleteThank you for sharing about your class, Emily. If you like what Childish Bambino does in that song, check out the movie Bamboozled--he stars in it. It is AMAZING. And it is about blackface. And violence.
DeleteI remember seeing posters for that May term and really wanting to take it! I had to take French 3 that May, though.
DeleteI just watched the video you linked and the music video on its own and it's really, really interesting and I would have loved to sit in on a discussion about that
I love songs like This is America that have a deeper meaning. It makes the song that much more powerful.
DeleteYet again, American history can not be separated from black history. As I listened to the podcast, I found no surprise in hearing that so many white musicians did black face and tried to reenact black music. White people have a way of trying their hardest to dehumanize all things that come from black people and turn it into something white and more “civilized”. It sickens me that even black muscians were forced into doing black face and make fun of their own race just to please the white listeners.
ReplyDeleteSo much of the music we hear today is influenced by the soul and heart that black artist poured into their music long ago and continue to create today. I wish more people could hear this podcast and understand that so much of America could not be possible if not for the amazing influence and creativity of the very people we disgustingly enslaved long ago. At one point, he said that the white artist tried to make themselves feel better about slavery by taking black music for themselves and turning it into a white thing. I believe this kind of stuff still happens today. Racism may be more masked in our current society, but there is still this unnecessary need to turn black history into white history and it breaks my heart.
I wish that people could learn this too. There are racist people out there that aboslutley LOVE music, but do not even realize that music would be nothing without black people creating the beautiful art.
DeleteI agree. It makes me incredibly uncomfortable that so many white artists have taken black arts and tried to claim it as their own just to make things more palatable.
DeleteWell stated, Faith.
DeleteLike Brooklyn, I wish so many more people than just our class could listen to this podcast...
It was eye opening to see how much music has influenced America as a whole! It would be cool if other classes would listen to this podcast as well
DeleteThis episode was so eye-opening! Music has always been an important factor in our lives, ever since it's existed. Yet, this important triviality can still be racialized. White people have stolen so much culture from people of color, music is one of the biggest! I remember when I first learned Betty Boop was based on a black jazz singer, but she never recieved any profits or recongnition. I just will never understand why peoples of color must always be the martyr or the scapegoat.
ReplyDeleteI know right?!
DeleteOne of the mindboggling facts about blackface minstrelsy Wesley Morris brings up is that Black people also engaged in it. He mentions this in passing, saying, “After the Civil War ends, and there’s an opportunity for black people to perform, they have to do what the nation wants. And what the nation wants at that point is blackface.”
ReplyDeleteWhat I find really interesting here is the economic pressure on Black performers to “blacken up” with cork. Black people put on blackface because it’s what white audiences wanted, because it was the only way for them to try to become commercially successful. That Black people performed in blackface doesn’t make it right. It doesn’t make it any less dehumanizing, offensive, and embarrassing. It makes it a particularly powerful tool for oppression and exploitation.
This is a fairly random fun fact, but the whole modern concept of a clown is... basically just someone in blackface, but with white paint. I swear I'm not joking.
DeleteIt’s awful that many Black performers had to humiliate themselves to make a profit. Once again showing how evil consumerism and capitalism can truly be.
DeleteI did not realize that slaves singing led to what Stephen Foster used to sing. It was crazy to learn that white people pretty much stole African American music. I am thankful for the music world, and how it has progressed. However, black people do not get enough credit for what they have done for the music world. The episode talks about blues, and jazz etc, but I would make the claim that black people also started rap culture.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I think you're underestimating how many genres were created by black people. Rock was created by black people, as were jazz, blues, ragtime, rap, hip/hop, pop I'm pretty sure, and I THINK they may have even made country. As far as I know, the only modern genre sof music that are truly "white" are classical, which can hardly even be called a "modern" genre of music at this point; and the modern forms of church music that evolved from plainsong.
DeleteIt amazes me how much control that white audiences have on entertainment. Black performers would wear blackface because it is what white audiences wanted. I see the relation to that today because a lot of rap music is listened by white audiences. I feel like there is more of a grasp on it but a lot of songs for Tiktoks are played and performed by white people. I think this episode still has a lot to say about today's society.
ReplyDeleteWill, you bring up the same point Kurt does: white people put economic pressure on Black performers and can, therefore, control a lot of things about the production and distribution of music.
DeleteI had known for a while that American music was essentially black music, but what surprised me is that so many black performers had to go and do blackface. That just seems pointless that someone would have to go up and add special paint that I just... don't know what to say. Is the point that black people have become such a universal butt of all the jokes imaginable that it's impossible to get by without joking about them even if you are one? That's. wacky.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I was surprised to learn in this podcast was that Judy Garland had performed in blackface. I don't know much about Judy Garland, but I feel like we're all sold this tale about her and many other famous people that they were good and sweet and kind, but they were also complicit in a lot of horrible things: in this case, racism.
ReplyDeleteIt's the same thing we were talking about with Lincoln last week. So much is just being overlooked and not taught or discussed
I was really disappointed to hear she performed in blackface. She has always been an old hollywood favorite for me.
DeleteGood point, Marissa!
DeleteI don't recall where I hear it, but Judy Garland has a shockingly sad past: forced dieting by studios, medications, and mental breakdowns...it wouldn't surprise me if she did not have much of a choice about the decision to perform in black face
DeleteThat's an interesting point, Emily! I did a bit of googling and found a clip of her in a movie in blackface. Not sure if that was the only time it happened, but that's what I found. The website said she was 14 at the time, which is also something to consider, though that doesn't make it excusable
Delete(Sorry this is late my internet has cut out the 1000 times I have tried playing this episode bc of the storms)
ReplyDeleteI really really loved this episode. It made me think about some conversations I have seen online in some anti-racism Facebook groups. A lot of Black women have proposed that Cardi B and other non-black singers like her essentially perform as Black winder by speaking and singing in the same vernacular stereotypical of young, Black, American women. Is this comparable to minstrel shows at all? I also wonder about people who “blackfish”, where they put on makeup, get haircuts, and wear outfits to make themselves look stereotypically Black and have Black features. Is this comprable to black face? Or are these things separate completely??
I don't think these are separate things at all, Shelby. I have a podcast to recommend to you--I'll send you an email about it.
DeleteI have never hear of "blackfish" or Black winder. You've given me some things to look up!
DeleteI have read about what you are talking about Shelby! It is a very interesting matter
Delete"Black people, blacked up and performed as black people who weren't actually black..." A modern example that highlighted this particular practice is Childish Gambino's"This is America". It is no surprise that American music is black music. Almost everything about white American came from people who were anything but white Americans. Black slaves, natives Americans, asian workers ( they were essentially salves) not to mention Mexico.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, Yousef.
DeleteIt is amazing how a nation which has never treated black people as full equals has been so shaped by them...
DeleteThis is very well said. I agree. White Americans appear to have taken lots of things and labeled them as their own over the years.
DeleteThis was interesting to listen to. I’ve listened to all these songs for years not really knowing the history. “This is the sound not just of black America, but the sound of America. It is deeply American, almost especially when it’s sung by British people like David Bowie and Annie Lennox and Amy Winehouse. And it fills me with pride.”
ReplyDeleteAmerica has gone through a lot of pain and struggle to get where it is today and that doesn’t exclude music. At first when I started to listen to this podcast I didn’t realize what they were saying when they said black music was American music, but now after finishing listening to this I understand that it is the perfect metaphor for freedom, which is the ultimate message of America. “Because this is the sound of a people who, for decades and centuries, have been denied freedom. And yet what you respond to in black music is the ultimate expression of a belief in that freedom, the belief that the struggle is worth it, that the pain begets joy, and that that joy you’re experiencing is not only contagious, it’s necessary and urgent and irresistible.”